Aug
28
Tiznow – is there a better stud fee bargain?
by Barry Roos
Published: August 28, 2008 136 Comments
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At 30,000 dollars, Tiznow is proving to be a heck of a bargain. In reviewing the leading sire list, Tiznow currently is second behind only Curlin’s sire Smart Strike, who stands for 150k at Land’s End. Of the others in the top 5, Kingmambo is 3rd and stands for 150k, followed by Giant’s Causeway at 125k and Distorted Humor in 5th at 300k. See the Bloodhorse leading sire list >>
So why the discrepancy?
Pedigree: 2 are by Mr. Prospector, one by Forty Niner and One by Storm Cat. Tiznow is by Cee’s Tizzy. Kentucky breeders forget Mr Prospector was once an outsider as well.
As a racehorse, Tiznow was special and he is passing on the one quality that made him the only dual Classic winner, his tremendous heart. Colonel John had a bad trip and still fought on to win the Travers. Well Armed also ran his heart out and just missed in the Pacific Classic.
To me Colonel John has pointed out one other quality, which will be very important to breeders down the road. They run on artificial surfaces, as well as traditional dirt surfaces. I for one feel this will be important down the road, especially if Churchill or NYRA go the artificial route. Horses which handle both surfaces will be valued, there is no doubt. Tiznow has sired turf winners as well, which makes him as versatile a stallion as you can have. Sprints, routes, turf, dirt, poly, who could ask for anything more?
My guess is Tiznow can’t stay at 30k for long. His fee has to at least double soon. Breed to him if you are lucky enough to get in at that price.
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Tiznow offspring are doing well and usually a decent betting prospect. I would like to suggest a name for a Tiznow foal…..
Twas Then Tiznow
I love Tiznow offspring. I think he was always under-rated as a racehorse and his foals are proving extremely versatile. Wasn’t he standing for even less fairly recently?
There’s currently a horse racing called Tiz Then Tiz Now…not exactly what you suggested, but close…
Totally agree with you. Tiznow is the best deal out there. His offspring demonstrate his will to win time and again, as witnessed in yesterday’s G1 Ruffian at Belmont when latest winner Tough Tiz’s Sis splashed her way to over 12 length off track victory with previous 0 for 3 offtrack record. Mr.Prado kept dirt out of her face this time and it seemed to do the trick. Latest winner is just one of many Tiznow progeny contributing to his #2 North Amercian leading sire position, posting 2008 overall earnings of almost $7 million – compared to leader Smart Strike with $8,705,869, half of which come from Curlin’s $4,694,000 this year. Tiznow’s leading offspring include notable Colonel John with $1,213,530 earned this year. And let’s not forget Da’Tara, Tiz Now Tiz Then, Tough Tiz’s Sis, Well Armed and Folklore. I believe Tiznow’s stature as a top sire will continue to grow as he passes on his athleticism, sound constitution and determination to other fine quality horses in years to come.
Tiznow is probably one of the few sires whose fee will increase in ’09. The results at the yearling sales should make fees go down across the board.
The other really exciting stallion in my opinion is Street Cry, but at $100K, it’s no secret he offers a lot of quality.
I think the handicap ranks in 2009 will belong to TIZNOW. Look at all the good male horses he has: WELL ARMED, COLONEL JOHN, TIZ NOW TIZ THEN, SLEW’S TIZNOW, SLEW’S TIZZY, INFORMED, TENFOLD, ONLY FOR NOW, LIQUIDITY, PROPHET JOHN, TIZBIG, TIZDEJAVU, MERCHANT MARINE and BULLSBAY! That’s quite a list! WinStar Farm should start advertising with the slogan, “If you want to compete in the handicap ranks, you’re gonna need a TIZNOW!”
In the Breeders Cup I am expecting great performances from WELL ARMED and COLONEL JOHN in the Classic, and SLEW’S TIZNOW in the “dirt” Mile. I hope TIZZY’S TUNE can get into the Filly & Mare Sprint, too, because she just beat a good field this past weekend, she loves Santa Anita, and 7 furlongs is perfect for her. BEAR NOW is an excellent filly, but way overmatched against ZENYATTA, so I’m hoping she can hold on for 2nd or 3rd, maybe. Too bad TIZDEJAVU got injured, so he’s out of the BC Turf Mile.
There’s an interesting horse in Japan, called PERFECT KEN, who just broke his maiden. He’s out of a mare that is by MR. PROSPECTOR-SANGUE, by LYPHARD. I am going to keep my eye one that one, with great anticipation.
TIZNOW’s numbers are constantly improving. His AEI is up from 1.59 at the beginning of the year to 2.13 right now. And he has 16 stakes winners, which is just about 5% of his foals of racing age. He has a lot of up and coming horses, so that number is going to improve. He is the leading sire, by earnings, in North America, and by earnings on “synthetic” tracks. What’s most impressive, I think, is his ability to sire runners who can compete and win in Grade 1 races, and other top class events.
We are watching how Bullsbay comes along. His dam is the Hess Express and he has a half sister Our Khrysty out of Newfoundland by the Hess Express.
i am the bloodstock agent who picked Bullsbay out at Keeneland Sept. 2005…i believe that he is the best male horse left in training (funny that he is not yet a stakes winner)…i fully expect him to take on anybody and everybody in 2009…i hope his new trainer takes him to Gulfstream for the Donn or better yet…Dubai for the World Cup…this equine athlete is the best kept secret in thoroughbred racing.
I’m going to write off TIZBIG, PROPHET JOHN and TENFOLD from my list of imposing runners by TIZNOW, but the other runners I listed are excellent. Like I said, the handicap ranks in 2009 will belong to TIZNOW.
I love BULLSBAY. I bet $40 to win on him in his first career start and he came flying, to lose a photo finish, and I think he was more than 50-1. He is a very good horse, and I think he can compete from 7 to 10 furlongs, around one turn or two. I hope he aims for the Donn Handicap as well! BULLSBAY’s last two wins were most impressive, and I think he would have won his third start back (when 3rd at Keeneland) if he had had racing room.
I understand ALBERTUS MAXIMUS is now training in Florida, and I think he’s a very nice horse. I think BULLSBAY will step up and give that horse all he can handle…maybe more.
The full brothers SLEW’S TIZZY and SLEW’S TIZNOW sure are going in the right direction, aren’t they? Both set track records at Hollywood Park in the last week, and both looked really good in their wins. The Breeders Cup Mile wasn’t a true indicator of their ability.
In California we’ll have SLEW’S TIZZY, SLEW’S TIZNOW, WELL ARMED, COLONEL JOHN and LIQUIDITY going for the big handicap races. In the east they’ll have BULLSBAY, DA’ TARA (his last race, defeated by BULLSBAY, was really no worse than COMMENTATOR’s losing race), TIZ NOW TIZ THEN and TIZDEJAV (on the turf). And in Dubai MERCHANT MARINE is going to go for the big races. What a group of handicap runners!
One last thing….is it too late for me to buy BULLSBAY? I can go to $150,000…but if I could get him for $100,000 I would be happier.
I know, I know….aint gonna happen. But I really had this one pegged right from the start…and too bad I’m late! I would love to own this colt.
I own the Dam of Bullsbay and no one is more frustrated that he is not a Stakes winner yet than me! I really appreciate that others see the potential that I have also seen with him in 2008, and hopefully they just let him run and don’t dodge horses race to race in 2009 like it seemed was happening in 2008. I tried to get the Mare bred back to Tiznow but they are already oversubscribed to him, so I am breeding her to Hard Spun.
OH NO! The dam of BULLSBAY can’t get back to TIZNOW in 2009? I hope Winstar Farm will reconsider that after BULLSBAY wins the Hal’s Hope and Donn Handicap (Gr-1) in January at Gulfstream Park!
THEGA (a Winstar mare) keeps going to TIZNOW, and they’re not a good match, so why not send THEGA to HARD SPUN or SPEIGHTSTOWN and free up a spot for THE HESS EXPRESS (dam of BULLSBAY)? I totally understand that TIZNOW is very popular right now, but I think the dam of BULLSBAY should be given a spot.
BULLSBAY probably would have won the Clark Handicap (his time was about the same, and he was dominant in his 5 length win, which occurred 30 minutes earlier).
When BULLSBAY wins a stakes race in January hit up the kind folks at Winstar Farm and ask them for a spot for your mare.
Mr. Reed…you need to take The Hess Express to true 1 1/4 stallions like Lemon Drop Kid, Curlin, Albert the Great, Giant’s Causeway, Awesome Again, A. P. Indy, Street Cry, Proud Citizen…i think physical strengths of these stallions, like Tiznow & New Foundland have proven to help your mare lack of scope-range…i worry that Hard Spun, like Touch Gold do not have the physicality to help your mare…i picked out Bullsbay for Eric Kruljac and his owners because i love his physicality and i knew the strengths of both his parents…i used to bet on both regulary…i would love to hear from you and can be reached at zapeye@hotmail.com
I have a feeling that we’re going to see THE HESS EXPRESS going back to TIZNOW in 2009. The Hal’s Hope is January 3rd, so that’s right around the corner. And the Donn Handicap (Gr-1) is at the very end of the month. I might be wrong (we’ll see) but I think BULLSBAY is going to be ready to rock!
Talk about hyping a mare that is in the January sale.
I don’t think anyone who posted here has hyped anything. We don’t know each other. There’s no conspiracy. There’s no hype going on either. These are our opinions, and they’re all quite legitimate.
Well…I guess I’m happy that BULLSBAY finished a good second…but I was really hoping for a win. Maybe he’ll get that win next time! He ran a good race today, though.
We need more people posting here, besides me. Anyway, TIZFIZ ran a great race in the San Gorgonio at Santa Anita today, just like I thought she would. She was the horse for the course and the controlling speed…and she got it done!
ALBERTUS MAXIMUS wasn’t breathing hard after he won the Breeder’s Cup Dirt Mile. In the upcoming DONN HANDICAP this Saturday, he’ll meet some tough horses but he’s getting better with every race and he’s better than his 102 Beyer would indicate.
i have been checking out all the experts opinions for the Donn and see that no one gives Bullsbay much of a chance…seems to me that very few people watch tapes and did not see the bad ride by Leparoux in the Hal’s Hope…Bullsbay broke on top and was dragged far back into traffic and cost Bullsbay any chance for the victory…Saturday will be the day of the Bull!
Larry – I think you mean day of bullsh*t. This horse should have been placed in a far easier spot than the Donn. It doesn’t take Einstein to figure that out.
BULLSBAY obviously didn’t run his race. In fact, he didn’t run any kind of race at all. Maybe he bled? Maybe he really hates that Gulfstream Park surface? I have no idea what happened, actually. I just know that he had an awful day today. I don’t think he needed an “easier spot” at all, the horse didn’t run. You can’t say he ran his race and lost by 40 lengths. He didn’t run his race at all. Today was a catastrophe. You can’t hold this race against BULLSBAY.
If anyone thinks BULLSBAY ran his race today, and that ALBERTUS MAXIMUS is really 40+ lengths better than BULLSBAY, then I’m going to have to say that DA’ TARA is 100+ lengths better than BIG BROWN.
Eventually they all find their level. Bullsbay has found his. There is nothing wrong with being a solid minor stakes performer. He is still better than 99 percent of his foal crop.
I would like to respectfully beg to differ about finding his level. In the Hal’s Hope Handicap BULLSBAY beat FINALLYMADEIT and ANAK NAKAL, but yesterday he was eased while FINALLYMADEIT almost won. Something went terribly wrong as BULLSBAY was one of three horses in the race that were “eased.” I don’t get it…is that track like quicksand? I hope he never runs at Gulfstream Park again.
MR. HOT STUFF (a full brother to COLONEL JOHN) put it all together today at Santa Anita and won in impressive fashion. He reminded me of COLONEL JOHN’s “rocket” finish in the Santa Anita Derby. I hope the Sham Stakes is next.
BELIEVEINMENOW won at Aqueduct today and beat a good field (he was unfairly disqualified against basically the same field last time, even while mucht he best). I have always liked this horse. I hope he keeps winning.
I have been following Bullsbay, mostly because of the talk on this blog. I thought he found a nice easy stake to win at Laurel, but a long shot just blew him away. I am afraid, he is just a minor stake horse at best. The Campbell was not a stellar field and their are no graded stakes winners in that group. But at the same time, as Dr. Fischer said, there is nothing wrong with being a solid minor stakes performer.
I am pretty disappointed. I thought BULLSBAY was much better than this. The winner of the John Campbell today is a decent and consistent runner, but I thought BULLSBAY would win this race quite easily. If BULLSBAY were mine I would have tried him in the General George, around one turn (7 furlongs) on Monday. Maybe he’s just never going to be what I expect, though. Maybe a “minor stakes performer” is the best we can hope for.
WELL ARMED was just too much for that field at the Dubai World Cup today! Right before the race I said, “He’s gonna win…in a blow-out!” but I didn’t exactly envision 14 lengths! WOW!!!
And BULLSBAY is back on track and winning again. He got his first stakes win today.
TIZNOW vaults to #1 on the leading sire list. I think he is going to stay there.
It could be a tough year for the 3 year olds. I don’t remember the exact numbers but there is only about 60 foals from that crop. Unfortunatly, the commercial breeders wanted to give up on him, that’s why his fee dipped to 25,000 during that season. The two year olds should be more promising, Jess Jackson has picked up a couple in the recent sales. If he sends them to Steve A, we will hopefully have some runners at Saratoga through the breederscup juvenile. He is getting the best mares he has ever had this year and settling them quickly. It should just get better and better from hear on out. Watch out for Mr. Hot Stuff this weekend, if he gets a decent ride he will surprise or should I say shock the experts.
[...] works here. I asked the question on August 28th whether their was a better bargain than Tiznow? [Read Post] That was at 25k. I would like to repeat that today, but at [...]
TIZNOW’s 3 year old crop hasn’t brought out any top horses yet. The key word is “yet.” Some good horses might emerge. After all, many of TIZNOW’s best horses develop at 4 or 5 years of age. WELL ARMED won his first stakes at the age of 5, for example. MR. HOT STUFF looks good though.
But I don’t think TIZNOW will need the 3 year old crop to be good in order to finish #1 on the Blood Horse’s Leading Sire List this year. He has enough good older horses to secure that title. WELL ARMED has given him an outrageous lead at this point. SLEW’S TIZZY, DA’ TARA, COLONEL JOHN, TIZDEJAVU, LIQUIDITY, SLEW’S TIZNOW, TIZ NOW TIZ THEN, INFORMED, BULLSBAY, BELIEVEINMENOW, LADY CHACE, BEAR NOW and TIZAQUEENA will represent their sire very nicely as well. That’s quite a good group of horses, folks!
Someone over at Daily Racing Form’s website says that “WELL ARMED is not top class.” If that horse is not top class then I have no clue what top class is…and neither does the guy who said that.
How could I have forgotten to include TIZFIZ and MERCHANT MARINE in my list? I sure do hope that MERCHANT MARINE comes back to Belmont Park after his debacle in Dubai. All his wins have come at Belmont, so he’s definitely the horse for that course.
Mike S:
You obviously follow the progeny closely. Are you affiliated with Tiznow or just a fan? I agree with some of them on your list of older runners but some are suspect (slew’s tiznow, DaTara, and Liquidity), others we will have to have some racing luck. The great thing is you know there will be more future stars just over the horizion. Watch Gigaton (full brother to Tizdejavu)at Keenland on Saturday. He is not keyed up to win first out but he is showing signs he could be a serious race horse in the future. As for Mr. Hot Stuff, he is going to have to get a much better ride than the Sham. He needs to make sure he is never more than 6 lengths off of PM. If you watched the sham he was 15 lengths off of him at the 1/4 pole and passed the PM about 15 lengths after the wire and continued to gallop out almost 1/2 mile past the finish line. He wasn’t blowing that hard when he came back and PM had a hard time standing to get his picture taken.
P.S. What happened to Tizzy’s Tune? She hasen’t worked in a while, is she done?
I’m a racing fan and a TIZNOW fan. I always chat with the Casners when I see them at Santa Anita, and they are very nice people. I’m happy for all their success.
I remember reading a comment late last year by Arnold Zelcher, regarding TIZZY’S TUNE, saying he was thinking about retiring her, but then he turned her over to Bob Baffert. She finished 4th in the Santa Monica, against VENTURA (love that mare too!) and I have not seen a workout since that time. So I’m going to guess TIZZY’S TUNE is retired…but I don’t know that for sure.
Mike S:
You didn’t by any chance predict that UCLA would go to the elite eight?
I hope the English horse goes back to Kempton, or wherever, and doesn’t take up a spot in the Kentucky Derby, he just finished 8th in the Blue Grass so there’s no sense in going to the Derby. I want MR. HOT STUFF to get his shot in the Derby, if WinStar Farm chooses that route. Otherwise, a Peter Pan and Belmont Stakes assault might be in the making. Either way, I think MR. HOT STUFF is improving at the right time, and he just might pop up with a big effort on a big day and make all the TIZNOW fans very happy.
I also want to applaud Michael Stidham’s handling of TIZAQUEENA (4 wins 1 second from 5 starts), a horse I think will continue to improve. And I think LADY CHACE is sitting on a stakes win. She can run on turf, but when she’s in good form she is even better on dirt. She can be a real dynamo.
What depressing news…I just heard that MERCHANT MARINE is going to stay in Dubai for the forseeable future, hang out in the desert for 4 months, and then probably come back to the races at the end of the year, in Dubai.
MERCHANT MARINE is a really good horse, and a horse who does his best racing, by far, at Belmont Park. All of his career wins were at Belmont, and he also was 3rd to CURLING in the Jockey Club Gold Cup there. His races at Aqueduct, Saratoga and Gulfstream Park were all either bad or just sort of dull. He’s a Horse For the Course…at Belmont.
In his only race in Dubai, this horse raced in the back of the pack (instead of his usual stalking position) and finished 12th by about 40 lengths. I can’t even imagine why Shadwell would keep him in Dubai instead of sending him, on the next plane, to New York.
Lots of good horses get ruined.
Mike S….the sceptics on Bullsbay should also look at his last 2 speed figures in those “minor” stakes races….he had a E102 in the Hal’s Hope and since had A E115 and a E120 in the “minor” stakes. He also barely lost to Mr Sidney at Keeneland (who just won the Makers Mark G1), beat Let It Rock (who just won the G3 Razorback) beat Da’Tara, beat Bribon(just won a G3), beat Cost of Freedom(won the G1 Ancient Title) beat the winner of the Oaklawn Hcp G2 and when he came in 2nd in that “minor” stakes, he was running back 2 weeks after running in the Donn, and went 1 1/8 miles again. I don’t think he has any excuses tomorrow in a tough field in the Alysheba……let’s see what happens and maybe he will prove himseldf one way or the other.
Well, well, well…BULLSBAY proves that he is quite a fine horse after all. I knew that his Gulfstream Park debacle was not indicative of his ability at all, and that he had not “found his level.” Something weird happened that day, and that race is a throw-out.
Today’s victory in the Alysheba Stakes (Gr-3) at Churchill Downs is much more an indicator of the horse that BULLSBAY is, and he’s a very good horse indeed.
Congratulations Mr. Reed on Bullsbay winning a Grade 3 Stake Race at Churchill down. The Hess Express has quite a crop of winners. Bullsbay still has the track Record at Delmar. His Half sister-Our Khrysty is on a break. Keep your fingers crossed for her to come into her own like Bullsbay has. I have never seen The Hess Express in a photo. I have seen New Foundland, but not her. Thanks
Kudos. You had faith and were rewarded.
Today was a good day for TIZNOW. LIQUIDITY found his way to the winner’s circle, for the first time in ages, winning an allowance. And TIZAQUEENA just keeps right on rolling. She won a Grade 2 at Churchill Downs, running very tenaciously in holding off the challengers. TIZAQUEENA has that fighting spirit and toughness that TIZNOW had as a racehorse, and I think she’s going places. She has a record of 6 starts with 5 wins and a 2nd so far. Gotta love it.
This was a great week for Tiznow. Yesterday, he had 3 winners in a 20 minute time span. Congrats on Bullsbay!! Both, he and Tizaqeena showed that tenacious Tiznow spirit in their respective wins. I read that the next race Bullsbay is pointed to the Stephen Foster Handicap is that true? On another note, I was extremely impressed with Tizway’s performance at Aqueduct this week. If you missed the race you can see the replay here: http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/members/progenypps/pps_report.cfm?sire_name=Tiznow
I think we are looking at the next graded stakes winner for Tiznow.
TIZWAY really surprised me. He won, in a romp, by over 7 lengths, in about 1:34! And all this after being on the shelf for about 10 months! He really was ready to go! I think he’s trained by the same guy who has BELIEVEINMENOW (where is he? no workouts since his last win).
I am going to be so stoked if BULLSBAY wins the Stephen Foster (Gr-1), it will be pure vindication. I also think INFORMED is going to pop up and win a big one soon. I hope LIQUIDITY can step up and join the stakes ranks again…we’ll see.
I would like to say I watched the Alysheba with great confidence, but I had doubts like anybody else! Obviously the Stephen Foster is a much tougher spot, but 1 1/8 miles I think is his true distance, and he will have 6 weeks of rest. Katherine Stroh mentioned about Our Krysty, and her trainer said she had grabbed a quarter in the last race she was in, and we should start seeing timed workouts from her again any time. The Hess Express 2yo is a Yonaguska filly named Hidden Expression, and she is owned by Becky Thomas and I believe trained by Michael Trombetta. Katherine, if you would like a picture of The Hess Express and her Lawyer Ron filly at her side you can send your email address to me at tazamm@aol.com and I would be happy to email you some pics. Mike S- I don’t think anyone has supported Bullsbay as much as you! Hopefully he continues doing well…..
Did THE HESS EXPRESS go back to TIZNOW this year? Or was she bred to HARD SPUN?
She went to Hard Spun…..they were standing firm on saying that Tiznow was booked full.
Well, it wasn’t a win, or even a placing, but BULLSBAY’s 4th place finish in today’s Foster (Gr-1) was more like it. I knew that the people who said, “he has found his level” were wrong when they suggesting that being eased at the top of the stretch and crawling home was the best he could do against EINSTEIN. Today BULLSBAY was only a neck behind EINSTEIN, and I think that’s more like it, and more indicative of his ability. He was only a nose and a neck from second, and lost the whole thing by maybe 1-1/4 lengths. I’m not thrilled with the result, but I’m at least happy that he ran a good race and was very competitive.
BULLSBAY is a good horse.
I have some advice for people who own a young horse by TIZNOW: Let the horse mature. INFORMED just won the Californian Stakes (Gr-2) for his first stakes win, at the age of 5. He’s another late developing horse by TIZNOW and it really does seem that many of them get better with age. I think too many people are in a rush to get their horses to the races, and they just end up breaking them down at the age of 2. I think that with TIZNOW, for the most part, you should let his foals mature a bit and maybe they’ll blossom at 4 or 5 years old.
Not only does TIZNOW have the #1 handicap horse in the country, WELL ARMED, it looks like COLONEL JOHN, INFORMED and BULLSBAY are not all that far behind. And just wait until SLEW’S TIZZY comes back! And LIQUIDITY should run really well next time, now that he’s ready to rock. BELIEVEINMENOW and TIZWAY look like improving sorts as well. And how about DA’ TARA and SLEW’S TIZNOW? What if they wake up again? WOW!!!
I think Bullsbay has shown he can run with the best. Maybe he went a little early, but he was right there. Hopefuly it wont be long and Our Khrysty will be back at the track and training. Bullsbay has that character of one who wants to win. You could see him look at a horse on the outside of him he passed. It will come. He will win a big one!!!! He’s growing into it. Maturity counts.
Katherine…you rock!
I just saw the nominations for The Claiming Crown and while I thik INFORMED will be too busy winning the Hollywood Gold Cup to partake in that event, another TIZNOW should rock their world in the 9 furlong ($150,000) race on dirt – BELIEVEINMENOW. He’s another one peaking at the age of 5, and he has never been better.
LADY CHACE, a beautiful and slightly-wacky TIZNOW filly, just won the Saylorville over at Prairie Meadows, for her first career stakes win. She has a lot of ability, but I think she needs to learn to focus. Even still, she’s a very good filly indeed and I’m happy she broke out in a big way tonight.
Independence Day weekend looks exciting. We have TIZDEJAVU and TIZAQUEENA at Churchill Downs, and both should win. And look for LIQUIDITY to spring the upset in the Triple Bend Handicap at Hollywood Park. I don’t know if TIZ TO DREAM will be able to run down INFORMED DECISION (I doubt it) but I can still root for her.
Well…the weekend didn’t turn out so well. TIZDEJAVU ran out of the money for the first time in his life, and I have no idea why he was so dull. TIZ TO DREAM ran awfully badly. TIZAQUEENA and LIQUIDITY were scratched, thank goodness.
The Hollywood Gold Cup is coming up this weekend! How can you not love BULLSBAY? Oh yeah, there’s also INFORMED. I love them both, so a dead-heat would be made to order. I kick myself for not buying INFORMED last year…but I’m very happy for Doug O’Neill and the guys who did buy him, and I hope he keeps winning (feels almost like he’s mine…only I don’t get any money).
Should be quite a big field in the Gold Cup on Saturday….I know Bullsbay likes the track but hopefully he doesn’t get caught in traffic. Obviously based on his last race Informed likes the track also! You know which of the two I am rooting for.
richard, i am part owner of bullsbay, i hope the gold cup will be his breakout race. hes training great, got a good post and rose is flying in to ride.look for me in winners circle
good luck to mr.reed and owners of bullsbay at hollywood saturday. his half sister [our khrysty] is back in training and hopefully back in stake races soon. go bull
Frank,
I think you and your partners have done a tremendous job with Bullsbay and have a horse that rises to whatever level of competition he is put up against. His Dam is a class act like him and you should see his 1/2 sister weanling by Lawyer Ron….she is gorgeous and a real spitfire. I look forward to breeding to him after retirement! Thanks for the pictures of Our Khrysty, Katherine…she looks great and Bob says she came back from her rest looking better than ever.
sorry to hear today that lawyer ron had to be put down, mr. reed’s filly will be one of his few foals, and we all hope his best.
Thanks Katherine….I hesitated breeding another mare to him this year and now wish I had. What a strange Gold Cup….I think there were 10 or 11 jockeys that might have read that race wrong, including Bullsbay’s….I would have liked to have seen Bullsbay closer to the pace like the Stephen Foster, not settled 10 lengths back with about 3/8 to go. I think that the early average fractions were misjudged! Hopefully he will get them next time….I still gave his mom and 1/2 sis
their fill of peppermints and treats! How is Our Khrysty?
mr. reed, good luck with hidden expression this thursday, we’ll be watching on computer. khrysty’s condition is kinda up in the air, maybe a sale. really don’t want to say more, all we care about is she gets a great home, and if raced is ready. agree with you that jeremy kept bull to far off the pace, he might need a little breather to, plus he’s got heart as his half sister does. take care and good luck again
When they hit the half mile pole in :47-4/5 in the Hollywood Gold Cup I just said, “OH NO” because BULLSBAY and INFORMED were well back of that pace and I didn’t like the way the race was unfolding. I drove 65 miles, all the way from the southern end of Orange County, to get to Hollywood Park! I’ll give credit to RAIL TRIP and TWO STEP SALSA, though, they sure ran well. I think BULLSBAY and INFORMED will bounce back.
I am pretty sure that when COLONEL JOHN and WELL ARMED return we’re going to see the Kings of the Handicap Division.
Does anyone know what happened to FOLKLORE after she was retired with a fractured knee? Was she ever bred?
FOLKLORE had a colt by DISTORTED HUMOR this year.
I can’t believe I made that mistake…I posted that “I give credit to RAIL TRIP and TWO STEP SALSA”…but it wasn’t TWO STEP SALSA, it was TRES BORRACHOS that ran in the Hollywood Gold Cup!
I’m still kicking myself in the you-know-what over INFORMED. But I’m happy that he is actually turning out to be a very good horse. At least I know I have good judgment in horses!
lets see, bullsbay at churchill, bull in alligator ally, bull back in blue grass state, bull in sunny la, bull vacationating in upstate ny. man i need some more pins for my map. we’re rooting for ya bull, bull’s half sisters are now stabled next to each other in todd beattie’s barn at penn nat. run bull run
I love BULLSBAY. I’ve touted him his whole career. However, after the Hollywood Gold Cup run I was starting to think his sights should be set a little lower (like Grade 2′s and 3′s). I am happy to say I was wrong, because he just won the Grade 1 Whitney Handicap! WOW! And what a run that was! Finally he puts it all together at the top level of racing. Congratulations to his owners, breeders and his trainer, Graham Motion, who has done a masterful job.
automatic breth to classic if they want to go. he’s done pretty good at santa anita’s synthetic. and bull’s half sister [hidden expression won a stake race at monmuth. congratulations to all the connections.
Yesterday was a screaming high for me with Bull and Hidden showing them the back of their heels. Reality just hit and brought with it the word DYNASTY!!!! The Hess Dynasty-the Hess Legacy. It’s real. It’s in the genes. Bull is a monster. Look at his development. I notices his back legs yesterday, the kick.He’s at his best when he is eye to eye with the competitor. He wants to run past them. Hidden expression has a lot of untapped speed. Did you see her turn her head to look at two others. Thats still the juvenile in her, wait until she really gets down to business. Everyone, look to Our Khrysty for workouts too. She will be back to racing soon.
I’m going to take the genius route here and agree with Katherine about THE HESS EXPRESS. That mare is turning out to be a fantastic producer. I would imagine that she is worth much, much more than what her current owners paid for her! And good for them!
The mare seems to go well with different stallions, but I sure would like to see her go back to TIZNOW. At the beginning of the year I tried to help get THE HESS EXPRESS back to TIZNOW, by putting my two cents in and telling them that “BULLSBAY is going to win the Donn Handicap, so you might want to make room for THE HESS EXPRESS.” Well, I was wrong, he gave up in the Donn and just jogged home, but I was right about the horse because he finally did become a Grade 1 winner! So I was kinda right! But it just took longer than I had projected.
Caruthers on TVG made a nice comment about the Hess Express after both wins of Bull and Hidden. They know. Yes it would be nice. Tiznow,Newfoundland,Yonaguska and cross your fingers for the Lawyer Ron filly. I have all the Hess babies on my watches now.Our Khrysty is back in training, now in Todd Beatties barn with her half sister- Hidden Expression. Looking for a race for her soon. Mike S Keep your fingers crossed for her. We have not seen what she can really do. As my husband said-Run Bull Run, I say Run Khrysty Run
I just got my voice back but my head is still cloudy….what a weekend. That gives Tiznow 6 G1 winners now…that’s a lot for such a young Stallion! Hess got 5 carrots and 3 mints, and her Lawyer Ron filly got 1 carrot and 3 mints. They have no clue what happened this weekend….I could not get TVG out to their paddock in time. Can’t wait to see Our Khrysty back in action. If Todd can get her to not battle with the Jockey most of the race there is no telling what she is capable of. I hear she is bigger and badder and full of herself. Mike- I had spoke with the asst. trainer after the Gold Cup and she said Bull had trouble adjusting to the track at Hollywood…it was much different than when he ran there last year. If you watch coming to the stretch Jeremy made a move and then eased him….I think if he wasn’t going to place they probably told him to save the horse, so instead of 4th or 5th he eased to 10th, which made for a good day of betting in the Whitney. Do you think Well Armed is going to miss the Breeders Cup?
It’s funny, I was in the grocery store (Smart & Final) one day and I met one of the partners (Bruce) who owns THE HESS EXPRESS. I was pushing my cart past two men who were talking, and one mentioned “THE HESS EXPRESS” and I heard it, stopped in my tracks, and said, “Are you guys talking about the horse races?” LOL! What were the chances?
Yes, I noticed that BULLSBAY made a really good run in the Gold Cup, making it to 4th, before fading. BULLSBAY really has turned into quite a fine racehorse. I hope he goes for the Woodward next, and I don’t care if RACHEL ALEXANDRA shows up, he’s going to be very competitive, and he just might win.
It does appear that WELL ARMED is going to miss the rest of the year. I think his ankle chip will require some rest and relaxation. I hope he gets cranked up for Dubai next year!
COLONEL JOHN sure has a lot of options. He can go to the Whitney, Pacific Classic or maybe a turf race. He came back in great form. With COLONEL JOHN, BULLSBAY and INFORMED in such good form I think TIZNOW will continue doing great. He’s back to #1 on the Blood Horse leading sire list.
COLONEL JOHN can go to the Woodward, not the Whitney! I type too fast and sometimes I don’t think.
I am not sure if Frank Lewkowitz still looks in on these conversations, but if you do I noticed that it only said Mitchell Ranch the last time around as owner…none of my business but I was just wondering if you were still involved with Bullsbay.
Looks like BULLSBAY is on his way to his next victory; this one in the Woodward Stakes. I can hardly wait.
look out pretty lady. run bull run.
It would be best with a small field so he doesn’t get caught in traffic….I have been told that is his biggest problem because it is very tough for him to regain momentum. His 2 yo sis is running the same day again in the Sorority.
hello Richard annd all,
This is exciting to think of Bull running against the likes of rachel. Wow- even a double header with His sister!!! Botth by the great Hess Express. People are really talking about her. If you compare Bull and Rachel are their running styles and times compatible? I feel that it is a toss up here with a small field. It will be stamina and heart- a big heart that will take the victory. All in all its going to be a great day. Talk to the Hess for us Richard. Tell her that her babies are famous!! I’m headed home from Carolina and I will blow a kiss to Khrysty when I pass Penn National on my way home too. Good luck to every one and win big on the tote Bull. Kit
richard , im still a part owner of bb , overdite by nyra, my wife and son will be at the woodward. bb is training well and hopefully will put two back to back
Frank,
Glad to hear you are still a part of Bull!!Tiffany, my son,myself, and our partners Bruce and Joyce(they are flying in from California) are going to be at the Woodward also… If you get a chance my cell # is (859) 613-3194 and my email is tazamm@aol.com. By the way….Bull’s 2 yo half sis should be running in the Sorority at Monmouth on Saturday also…that was the first foal we were breeders of o/o Hess.
Richard,
Bullsbay’s other half sister Our Khrysty may be running Saturday at Penn National in an allowance race if it goes. Hopefully we’ll have a triple header on Saturday. She will enter on Wednesday.
I think Bull can pull this off with Rachel, I may be wrong, but we think if you look at where he has been-tracks all over, he has done extremely well. Also his stamina is beyond if you look at the dates he has raced. Saratoga will be sunny and @ 77 degrees. He has been on all weather tracks and she is dirt training. Nothing is impossible.
If BULLSBAY repeats that last effort, or even improves slightly, then I think he will give RACHEL ALEXANDRA all she can handle. I think she’s an awesome filly, but she is not invincible (having lost 3 times).
COLONEL JOHN should take down the Pacific Classic this weekend. I hope INFORMED completes the exacta.
IT TIZ has a shot at the Del Mar Debutante, I would say. And look for TIZ MIZ SUE to rock n’ roll in the Arlington Lassie as well.
mike s., from another mike s. , how do you see bullsbay race being run. i can’t see rachel being anywhere but on the lead or sitting real close to lead. know they got bull used to be near lead, but in the whitney and race back at laurel, when bull laid off the pace he was a monster at the end. what do you think. good luck to all the connections on bullsbay. run bull run
I could be wrong, of course, but I see a pretty good pace up front with COOL COAL MAN, DA’ TARA, IT’S A BIRD and maybe even PAST THE POINT making bids for the lead, a lead that RACHEL ALEXANDRA is going to want. I think the race sets up for BULLSBAY once again. However, if RACHEL ALEXANDRA is the horse that so many people are saying she is then she’ll probably win…but I’ll wait for her to do it and then I’ll be convinced. I think that if a pace duel develops – and it surely might – BULLSBAY will get the best of that situation because he won’t be extremely far back and he will get to the leaders in quick style if the race falls apart on the front end. What do you think?
mike, i think you’ll see alot of horses near the pace including rachel. if bull is smart he’ll wait just before macho and make 1 big run. think rachel is a monster but she’s facing older, 1st start at saratoga. run bull run
Hey everyone, thought I would let you know Todd Beattie entered Our Khrysty in the 7th race at Philadelphia on Monday. Jeremy Rose is the jockey. After a long layoff she is ready. It may be a tough field, but she has won here before. Keep your fingers and toes crossed for a 3 for 3 here.Run Bull-Hidden-Khrysty Run. To let you know we play Billy Idol’s “Rebel Yell”(more, more more) before each race as well as Tom Petty’s”Running Down a Dream”. It’s the theme songs for the Hess Dynasty!!! Best wishes too all the Hess Express connections. Well be cheering and screaming for all of you. We are on our way to Philly Sunday. If you are there our cell phone is 607-591-9276. Love to hear from you!!!
I think BULLSBAY ran a fantastic race yesterday, although it wasn’t quite as good as his Whitney. TIZ MIZ SUE and SCREEN LEGEND (fillies by TIZNOW) finished 2nd and 3rd in the Arlington Lassie, while IT TIZ finished a very close 4th in the Del Mar Debutante. I expected some wins but, hey, they all ran very well. Maybe COLONEL JOHN can take down the Pacific Classic today.
TIZFIZ won a $150,000 stakes race at Remington Park today, against boys. Yay!
That was definately a 3 horse race on Saturday….Rachel really proved herself….Bullsbay and Macho Again are 2 and 2 I think it sucks they are running the BC Classic on Polytrack….it is like having a Turf Championship day.
Considering Khrysty’s 7 month layoff and what we found out on this race I am not really that disappointed. Jeremy Rose gave us good info on what was what. Todd Beattie will figure it out. He only had her a short time before the race. She will be back another day and another race. Jeremy said he had alot of horse under him. The dream continues.
It’s good to see that BULLSBAY has become the top class handicap horse that many of us have thought he was going to become.
Does anyone know what happened to Bullsbay?? I was hoping to see him entered in the either of the Goldcup races he was nominated for… Hope he is doing well and just resting up for the BC Classic.
Chris- Ihe was supposed to race in the Goodwood next week but he has an abcess….they are hoping it heals quickly enough and they can train up to the BC….he stepped on a sharp object at Fair hill last week.
I thought it was funny to look back at Larry Wright’s comments on Feb 14th about Bullsbay being a minor Stakes horse at best, and getting beat by a longshot in the Campbell….that same longshot was also the longshot in the Pacific Classic….his name was Richard’s Kid…
Khrysty ran a heck of a race if anyone saw it. See the replay on you bet. She got out of the gate clean, Todd Beattie had blinkers on her. She settled in, made her move coming from off the pace, split horses and came from behind to clinch second to a Larry Jones horse called On the Menu. He ran 108.3 and Khrysty ran 108.4. Fast. She was on her way with no effort and On The Menu was all out. Fast, and all business considering this was her second race after a 7 month layoff. She changed leads under Oliver Castillio like clockwork. This was her fastest equibase speed figure(99) and her best beyer(85). Another furlong and she would have passed this horse. Bullsbay you half sister did just fine.
Sorry, Race was at Philadelphia on Saturday, 9th race.Did anyone see the race with Fabulous Strike. Was it a muddy track?
To answer Chris’ question about what happened to BULLSBAY and why he is going to miss the Goodwood, I heard that he stepped on a sharp object and injured himself rather slightly, but it was enough to affect him and stop his training for a short while.
Kitty, that was a heck of a race for Our Khrysty! We need her to win another Stakes prior to Nov. 11th!
I wanted to clarify my comment about Larry Wright….I was really just making sure that it was known that the horse that beat Bullsbay back in February won the Pacific Classic at Del Mar this year….I didn’t mean anything against Larry Wright!
Our Khrysty is in race 2 at Laurel on Friday.She will be racing against a horse (grade one runner I believe) trained by Graham Motion. Go Khrysty, show your half brother bullsbay you got game!!!!!
She did it! Khrysty is in her glory, even with a little monkeying around. HRTV did not give her any respect. She proved them all they were wrong. She still has not run flat out! Lets do it again. Mamma your daughter loves to run. Carrots for Hess
I can’t believe they had her 4th in the morning line o/o 6 horses….I guess the betting public showed their intelligence by making her the less than even money favorite! Congrats Kitty and Mike….you need to get her back into Stakes races.
I see Bullsbay had a nice workout. when he’s fit I wonder where he will run next?
He ships tomorrow for the BC Classic.
Actually his 1st preference has changed to the Dirt Mile…
can’t wait, have watched replays of tiznow’s 2000 and 01′s bc wins, what a heart, don’t care if giant causeway’s jock lost whip in stretch, he wasn’t going to beat tiznow. to bad his owner couldn’t see the repeat. run bull run
bb will work monday at sa with rose up and final decision will be made. shipped well to sa and galloped over track this am
good luck frank, bull’s 2 bigest fans, we’ll be wearing our tiznow hats for luck, mike and kitty stroh. bull’s half sister[our khrysty] in stake race at meadowlands nov. 20th
Hey Richard:
Are you going back to Kentucky for the sale?
Chris Cooper
Frank,
Dinner is on me if you hit the board with Bullsbay! I owe Bob, Mike and Kitty for winning w/Our Khrysty a week ago. I booked a flight to go to the BC, but got sticker shock when I called to get a decent seat, so I will watch from home…..seems SA charges quite a bit more for premium seating than other BC’s I have been to!
Chris,
I actually live in Ky so I will be here for the sale…..The Hess Express and her Lawyer Ron filly sell back to back hip #s 327 and 328 on Weds Nov 11th…are you going to be at the sale?
Richard:
I am going to the sale, be in Ky from Monday through Thursday. I will be there when she goes through the ring, should be fun to watch.
Chris
Chris…
My phone # is (859) 613-3194 if you want to meet up at the sale.
know bull ‘s preformance was little disapointing to his fans here, but we should remember his great year he relly had. great year bull, you gave us something to be proud of. let’s hope your little sister [our khrysty] can follow up the rest of year the way you started. get some rest bull and best to ALL his connections
Bullsbay proved once again like he did in the Gold Cup that he strongly prefers the dirt….too bad we had back to back years on the plastic. If they decide to run him next year the BC will be at Churchill Downs. If you throw out the 2 races he had in SoCal he had a tremendous year!!
Mr. Reed,
Awesome sale. Just to mention I also am in contact with Brookdale Farms. Really nice people there. I keep her(Sally) updated on Khrysty. She is one of the Hess’s greatest Fans, as you know. Great Stallion moves with a wonderful Mare. Thank you
Mr. Reed, while your horse obviously doesn’t handle the artificial surface, resorting to term “plastic” makes you sound small like Mr. Jackson. The last 2 Breeders Cups have been wonderful, action packed and the safest 2 ever. As horse lovers, that should be our goal. The world has seen 2 examples of how great horse racing can be. The Breeders’ Cup at Santa Anita have brought back the international flair. Hopefully next year we can have another great Breeders’ Cup, just pray it doesn’t pour, and we have a safe surface on which to perform.
You have a very nice horse, enjoy him.
Dr. Fisher artificial turf has its pros and cons. Using the term “small” in your comments is a detractor in our discussions here. It’s also personal and derogatory toward Mr. Reed. You are out of context and don’t know Mr. Reed at all.
I just read the commentary about artificial turf on Equine Project. Everyone has an opinion of this surface. Everyone on this site is a horse lover and has the safety and well being of the horse at stake, including the future of the industry. I disagree about Dr. Fisher’s comment that’s all.
Hi Richard:
Congrats on your success with the mare and weanling. I am sorry I didn’t see your message until I returned from the sale. I was at Hollywood Park yesterday to see American Lion run. While he didn’t dominate the competition, he looks like the real deal. I look forward to him stretching out in the Cash Call. Go Tiz Go!!
Thanks Chris….I have a mare I purchased that has a big family and lines up well with Tiznow…she was a 1.6 million dollar yearling purchase, and she is by Gone West. If you and your dad are possibly interested in a foal share call me and I can give you some details (859) 613-3194
good luck bull sat. in the clark.
There’s definitely a nick between TIZNOW and STORM CAT mares, but there’s also one that I like even more, and that’s the affinity and success between TIZNOW and MR. PROSPECTOR line mares. I love the TIZNOW/MR. PROSPECTOR cross! Richard Reed…I think you’re on to something good with the GONE WEST mare. Good luck with that.
Apparently under the cover of darkness Thanksgiving night, Churchill Downs installed a synthetic surface. This change in surface adversely affected the performance of certain participants in the Clark who have in the past disregarded negative efforts which they attributed to plastic surfaces.
from an outsider, bullsbay needs a rest, can’t come back that fast from an injury, even macho didn’t race that well. bull hasn’t been the same since the woodward. don’t think we accomplish anything here by trying to play 1 up on someone. bull has been a great money maker for tiznow’s offspring, we’re still big fans of tiznow and bull
hey anyone hear anything on bullsbay’s schedule
bullsbay is in light training and hopefully will try to repeat in the alysheba stakes oaks day at churchill
have gotten 2 notices on workouts for the bull, good luck to connections this year.
good luck to bullsbay’s connections preakness day.
Excellent post i’m sure that i will come back here again